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 Versus and breaking into the comic business

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soothsayer
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PostSubject: Versus and breaking into the comic business   Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:44 am

Versus is simply a working title, and does not reflect on what the final product may be called... keep in mind there is already a system called Versus (or rather, more accurately, Vs

This idea goes way back... a year? two years? The idea is this: we take the concept of Deadliest Warrior and apply it to comic book characters. The characters don't have to be from the same universe. Nor do the characters have to be similar in style or ability.

Remember many years ago the DC / Marvel crossover event Amalgram? That had potential, but the battles were based more on popularity than ability. Seriously, anyone who think Wolverine would have beaten Lobo needs their brain checked. So any, that is what we are doing, have characters fight each other; sometimes there may be a plot device attached to it, sometimes it might just be a closed arena.

Heroes versus heroes, villains versus villains. And yes, heroes versus villains.

We start off with giving the current, most up-to-date statistics we can find on the character, and then we would research and figure out and THINK on who would win, not because of the coolness factor, but rather because of what makes sense. We depict these characters fighting it out, and declare the winner. At the end, we explain why (just like in Deadliest Warrior).

For example, and one I particularly enjoy, Wolverine versus Sandman (Marvel's character). I actually searched this out on the internet yesterday, and amazingly people swear up and down Wolverine would win... but he couldn't, not if you think it through. Sandman can lift 85 tons, fly at (I forget the exact speed) so many hundreds of miles per hour; that alone makes him one hell of a sand blaster. Sandman can enter Wolverine and suffocate him, fill his blood vessels make literally make him burst apart. Let's not forget the fact that, being very porous, Wolverine would not even be able to cut Sandman.

We would draw all that up, the battle in its fullest, and explain why.

We could make a tier system, where the victor from one battle meets the victor from the other, or the loser of A meets victor of B, yadda yadda... would be a well rounded system, giving all characters a possibility of coming ahead, or of even making a come-back.

>>>

Breaking into...

I have so many damned comic book characters and story lines, it's unbelievable. But how to go about getting a fan base? Can't do it! People don't know my characters, they won't stick around to read them, to get involved.

So we don't publish them.

We begin by making fan based stuff, like Versus. Every so often, we include one of our characters into the fray, into a battle they would win just to show them off.

We continue along the lines of fan based stuff by making our own stories / one shots (An Elseworlds, or What If, if you will), proclaiming it to be a fan based work (don't want to step on the copyright infringements, do we); for example, I have an idea of the Punisher having been a mob enforcer, but then something went wrong... think Marv from Sin City. Anyway, at the end of those stories, we make a small 8 page independent story on one of our characters. We get them known by including them with characters that are known. We generate a buzz in that fashion, see what works / what doesn't.

THEN, when we have enough of a ground base, we can begin to do more of our stuff. We have to appeal to the masses before we can be creative.

This all brings me to my next question, but I will save that for later.
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PostSubject: Re: Versus and breaking into the comic business   Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:03 am

Analyzing this all typed up as a black-n-white idea takes me back to the conversations about it when it was just a "dude, have you seen deadliest warrior yet?" type of concept. I know it was discussed using a blog format, maybe some pictures or what-not to explain what the hell was going on. Looking at it from a comic perspective made it look a little simpler to pull off as far as explaining the fight stuff. Now, I know the idea is centered on 'geek' younglings fighting over who would win between Wolverine and the Punisher, so that's the main focus. BUT....

After reading yesterday, and thinking about it since, I was replaying your example fight in my head. Wolverine vs Sandman. Imagining your whole idea of Sandman filling up Wolvie's lungs and such, and it popped in my head that oft times in comics, a fight will be decided by intervention. For example, as Sandman revs up to sandstorm himself at Wolvie, Storm brings the rain, and suddenly Sandman is mud. No, Wolverine's claws still wouldn't do much, but it would be fun watching him roll in the mud like a furry 2 year old. Now, you're saying "where the hell did Storm come from???". And that's what I mean by intervention. It could be any member of the X-teams. Just happens to be finding Wolverine for a mission or whatever, and stumbles onto this fight to the death. Off the topic of X vs Y, but still highly plausible in the comic world.

Taking it one step farther, I seem to recall Sandman being in the Sinister Six. I could be wrong, but let's say I'm right. So now Doc Ock and Chameleon show up to explain a new job to Sandman, who is currently trying to get the drop on Wolvie. Having had a 'team member in peril' buzz on the big X belt buckle, Storm and Jubilee show up to assist Wolvie, and as they fly in Jubilee flash blinds the the Sinister Half, giving both teams a few seconds to muster. Now...how the hell does THIS play out?

Okay, yeah...maybe a bit too much for this concept, but it still fits the general subject of characters fighting others who are NOT their normal adversaries...and giving little guys a shot at big guys. The 3 X-guys I chose, and the 3 Sinisters make a damn interesting line. Given the X-guys teamwork training, I would assume they would try to pool resources to take down each antagonist in order of danger level. Beyond that, I'm stumped (maybe because it's 1am and I just pulled most of this out of my butt )

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PostSubject: Re: Versus and breaking into the comic business   Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:34 am

Actually that's where the tier system comes in. The original concept I had was Wolvie doing his solo thing in the Canadian wilderness, full of angst and deep thinking retrospect; Sandman comes in, saying the typical line of "their paying me a lot of money to kill you" or "with this, I'll be in the big time!".

Either way, the fight breaks out.

Maybe the X-Men get a destress call, or (with your example) Storm and/or Jubilee get a psychic "burst" of Logan getting the crap handed to him (I seem to recall that Wolvie does have a mental connection with one or two, that they know when he's in pain or whatever, just can't recall which on... and I know it isn't Jean).

Jump into the Blackbird, fly on out, and they find a nice shiny skeleton.

The X Men begin a series of villain busting information gathering hits. "Tell us who did this" and "Where is he? Where is Sandman?" Sandman finds out, gets scared (rightfully so), and assembles the Sinister Six. Battle Royal ensues.

**In this scenario, I don't see the Six fairing well. They are, after all, villains, and I doubt they will put their lives on the line to protect Sandman. And yes, even if they were to, the years of experience the X Men have, the constant training and team orientated style will easily floor the Six.**

Team battles have a lot of variables; one lucky shot or well placed blast can turn the tide for either side. A straightforward team on team will be rather difficult to map out. Heck, some teams, like the Justice League, have so many heavy hitters it would be nigh impossible to even consider them losing. The entire Versus idea may just have to be a singles match.

If we are doing this as a fan-based work, then I think we could steal the idea of Access. Who's that, you ask? During the DC vs Marvel, Access was the guy who was able to go between universes, take players from one and place them in the other. We just amplify his abilities so that he is able to cross through all universes... name him Nexus. But then again, that might just be going too far; just keep it simple, and follow the Deadliest Warrior concept (taking two warriors from time and have them fight). No story as to "why". No "I must seek revenge". Just straight up brawls.

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PostSubject: Re: Versus and breaking into the comic business   Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:17 pm

Been thinking about this concept again. I've wandered around the internet and found several boards that hold "debates" (and I use that term loosely), a few online polls that are probably based on popularity more than anything, and the Bat in the Sun videos for their popular Superhero Beat Down line, where they take the online poll and make a short movie out of it. But all told, it still boils down to popularity, or the victor is decided due to a specific set of circumstances.

That's just sad. There are so many cool concepts out there in which this could be played out. I definitely think we hit it on the head with our idea, on looking at all the factors and giving an explanation as to the hows and whys.

With that in mind, I think with the limited amount of time I have while at work, I might be able to draw up a picture or two for intended battles (thank you HeroMachine 3!) That way, when I think of a battle, I can do it up real quick so that I don't forget, post it here, and have discussions begin... and then, later on down the road (like in a couple decades), maybe actually drawing something up.
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PostSubject: Re: Versus and breaking into the comic business   Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:33 pm

So people don't think I just made a post and forgot about it, here is one of the battles I've been picturing.

Thoughts?  Comments? Oh, I'll be touching up the picture tomorrow, but at least you can get an impression of things.

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PostSubject: Re: Versus and breaking into the comic business   Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:56 am

So, in case anyone was wondering, the above would be Dr Strange versus Rasitlin.  That would truly be a devastating battle, no matter what plane it took place on.  Sadly, I really don't know all that much about Strange; luckily, there's plenty of Marvel encyclopedias online to do a thorough job.  I dare say that this battle would span the cosmos and all levels in between... who knows what would remain, especially considering that Strange is the mystical guardian of this plane, while Raistlin took on and defeated all gods!

Second on this visual journey we have something a bit more mundane: Punisher versus Solid Snake.  Both combatants seem to be evenly matched, but I'd have to lean towards Frank simply because of experience.  There's nothing Snake has done that Frank hasn't seen, but the fact remains that Frank has seen and handled a lot more, thanks to the super hero community. Perhaps we could balance this out somehow; say, instead of Snake, we use Big Boss. Yes, Big Boss, I think, would prove the better challenge.

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PostSubject: Re: Versus and breaking into the comic business   Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:30 pm

This one I was thinking of last night, and I'm actually surprised that there are a few forums that have made an attempt to at least discuss this.  However, in my opinion, those forums don't carry the discussion far enough (as is the case with most forums, I suppose).  I mean, here we have two well organized and equipped armies with key individual characters... where does the battle go?  With the advanced weapon systems?  With the characters?  Or with the scientific technology?  Imagine this battle played out; talk about your action / adventure flicks!

Oh yeah, the battle.  This will be pitted between two groups, two armies.  Both are similarly matched and could really go either way.  On one side, you have Cobra Command... on the other, you have Hydra.  To the victor, the world!



VS



{EDIT}

I just realized... this particular battle would be quite difficult to figure out and determine, especially if we were to follow the Deadliest Warrior format of analyzing and comparing each individual aspect. So maybe, just maybe, this match-up won't see the light of day for a decade and a half.
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