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Shadowcrunch
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PostSubject: Versus!   Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:45 pm

Just watched a trailer for Assassin's Creed 3... YAY! In the suggested videos on the right, there were TWO videos involving Skyrim... sigh. And now, I am torn. I think I know how it would end, but the FUS RO DAH is an unknown factor in...

"WHO WOULD WIN?" Episode One: Dovakiin is a Templar?!

In this episode, Desmond hops in the Animus, and discovers that at one point in history, the Templars used the power of the orbs (apples?) to cross time and space, hoping to gain mastery over magic on the world of Nirn. One of Desmond's ancestors, a member of the Assassin's order, follows through the orb portal (aka porbtal). After many moons of hunting, the Assassin finds the Templar agent, whom the orb's power has turned into a local legendary figure known as Dovakiin. This agent has been busy draining magic energy and learning local powers, including the ability to shout dragon breath attacks. He must be stopped before he can cross back through the porbtal to Earth! Can one super-agile, strong, climby, multiple-weapon-masteried, ass pummeling Assassin take down the mighty Templar Dovakiin?!

*Note: just picture this fight in your mind... take a step back and watch it play out in there. If it's not the best fight scene your brain has ever seen, you're doing it wrong! Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Versus!   Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:56 pm

Of course Enzio would win. He shoots at Dovakiin then hides, only to reemerge when Dovakiin realizes that the flesh wound he has was just his imagination.

Rinse and repeat.

...

OR... for the sake of argument let's say Dovakiin wins, strikes a fatal blow. The Animus, in all its glorious wonder, realizes that history didn't play out like that, and resets. You aren't reliving the memory correctly!

...

Enzio climbs to the top of Greybeard Mountain, or whatever the hell it was called, and perches... getting a nice look around. Suddenly, he leaps off and swan dives into... into... hmm, there really wasn't much around there, was there? A rapid flowing river going over some falls, a tomb filled with vampires, and a troll den or two.
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PostSubject: Re: Versus!   Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:48 pm

What it it wasn't Ezio? What if it was Altair, who didn't really have much in the way of shooters till way later? I didn't specify an assassin, especially since I was picturing the fight scene using the trailers of the new guy.

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PostSubject: Re: Versus!   Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:54 am

Doesn't matter if it was Altaire or Ezio or Barney... the scenerio you put forth was Desmond using the Animus, which would, upon your 'death', say that the memory didn't play out that way and then reboot. HA!

I love the Assassin's Creed games; great story, great controls, great concept. However, the trailer which you posted (and a damn fine trailer it was) shows the fallacies of one man combat, ie, "you missed me!" Granted, the muskets used didn't have that exceptional of a range and took (I believe) 40 seconds to reload, but that's why they fire in a volley, something's bound to hit. Something should have hit, and with it being a .50 calibre ball, our assassin here should have at least spun around at some point (I know, it's a trailer, it's depicting the hero, hero's don't get hurt (unless you're John McClane)). Well wait, hold a minute here... first volley took out the horse, second volley the rock... trained in close combat... okay, scratch what I originally put down.

I love the Assassin's Creed games; great story, great controls, great concept. However, the trailer which you posted (and a damn fine trailer it was) shows the fallacies of one man combat, ie, "you missed me!" Granted, the muskets used didn't have that exceptional of a range and took (I believe) 40 seconds to reload, but that's why they fire in a volley, something's bound to hit. Something should have hit, and with it being a .50 calibre ball, our assassin here should have at least spun around at some point (I know, it's a trailer, it's depicting the hero, hero's don't get hurt (unless you're John McClane)).

My money's still on the assassin winning. And yes, if Dovakiin were to fight as Conan did in the remake, while shouting out blasts of Yol'Toor'Shul, that would make a fine battle indeed. I've just always favored speed and dexterity over size and strength.

...

SIDE NOTE

I don't know if I like this latest AC game being set in America; from what the first AC revealed, everything was pointing to South America or Japan as being the next location... or maybe it was just wishful thinking. But you know what? I really don't care because I just really love these games.

In case no one here managed to get to the end of AC1, here's what I'm talking about.

http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Cryptic_Messages
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PostSubject: Re: Versus!   Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:16 pm

Yeah, I had to watch the trailer twice to really take in the whole '40 guys shoot, one horse drops, one guy hides behind rocks' concept. And then I had to watch a couple more times because WOWEE! Then one more time because apparently my video skipped all the other times near the beginning when they make it look like the bird turns into him running on the branch. Then one more time while holding a dollar cuz "HEY, they kinda DID make him look like George!"

For now I agree that the Assassin would beat the Dovakiin, but it occurred to me recently it all depends on which dovakiin. I was picturing the fight with my dova character, and I'm sure you were doing the same. But what if it was a Khajit mage, super-agile and the ability to turn invisible and summon elementals... plus the Thu'um! Kinda shakes it up a bit...

I am half tempted to move this thread out of video games and into a forum more associated with popular culture. I just had another one pop in my head, and it's not game related, but novel related... sigh

Oh, and I will be copy/pasting some of Sooth's Assassin's Creed post to another thread for further discussion about the games and their mythos, sharing some info I've recently come across. That thread will be http://cot2.forumotion.com/t276-assassin-s-creed#1148

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PostSubject: Re: Versus!   Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:29 pm

As far as I'm concerned, there is only one dovakiin, and that is your (mine?) character. After all, you, out of all that came before, you were the only one to stop the world ender, the destroyer of all, the eater of souls.

Now, if we were to alter the scenerio, make it so it was the original assassin (not a memory), living within that particular time frame (not through an animus), then safe money's on the dovakiin... unless the assassin is a damned fine shot or can approach the dovakiin unawares; only way the assassin could win is by utilizing full stealth. Oh sure, some may say that the assassin was every bit the sword master, but come on now... all he needs is to be in melee range and have the opponent shout. No sir, it has to be stealth, or else it's light's out.
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PostSubject: Re: Versus!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:45 pm

I have moved this thread to the Friendly chat section, as it would feel wrong to me if we started discussing non-video game characters in a video game forum. It's not in comics, not in video games, nor in tv and movies, not books or music... now it's time for anything goes!!! Hell, now we can pit Wolverine against James Hetfield if we wish!

And why did I do this? Because I just remembered my other idea that popped in my head the other day. A doozy, and one that I seriously doubt certain members of this forum will be able to look at without a shred of bias Suspect

I give you:

(stupid google images....)

GANDALF THE WHITE vs RAISTLIN MAJERE

**I tried google-imaging gandalf, hoping for a shot from the old cartoon or one of the many awesome 70s paintings, and it's ALL just Ian McKellan!!! Not a problem, but wanted artist rendering and artist rendering... Now... let the battle of bias commence!!! Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Versus!   Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:05 am

I stayed out of the first one since my knowledge of the Assass in Creed character is lacking.
But I'm game for this one even though 1) the only J.R.R. book I read was the Hobbit, (and mind you not all the way through) and 2) I've only read Chronicles.

I would have to say that Raistlin would win without a doubt.

Although Gandalf does have power and a quick mind, he has one flaw which I am basing my judgement on. Compassion. I can see the white wizard hesitate, for just a mere moment, seeing Raist's body convulse from his blood spitting coughing fits. And that's where Raistlin would finish the fight. Probably in a messy way too. ick..
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PostSubject: Re: Versus!   Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:19 am

Based on the Hobbit and Chronicles, I would agree with you. We know what Raistlin is capable of, so I won't expand there, but I would like to add some light reading to the campaign, from the wiki... (keeping in mind I said Gandalf the WHITE)...

In Valinor, Gandalf was known as Olórin.[1] As recounted in the "Valaquenta" in The Silmarillion,[19] he was one of the Maiar of Valinor, specifically, of the people of the Vala Manwë; and was said to be the wisest of the Maiar. He lived in the gardens of Irmo under the tutelage of Nienna, the patron of mercy. When the Valar decided to send the order of the Wizards to Middle-earth in order to counsel and assist all those who opposed Sauron, Olórin was proposed by Manwë.

He was a Maiar. What's that?!

The Maiar (singular: Maia) are beings from J. R. R. Tolkien's high fantasy legendarium. They are lesser Ainur who entered Eä in the beginning of time. Tolkien uses the term Valar ("The Powers") to refer both to all the Ainur who entered Eä, and (more often) specifically to the greatest among them, the fourteen Lords and Queens of the Valar. So the Maiar are at the same time lesser Valar and the helpers of the (greater) Valar. "Valar" without qualification generally refers to the great Valar. The name Maiar is in the Quenya tongue and comes from the Elvish root maya- "excellent, admirable".[1] Maiar refers in Quenya to all the Ainur who entered Eä, the "Creation", and more often to the lesser power among them: "Maia is the name of the Kin of the Valar, but especially of those of lesser power than the 9 great rulers" wrote Tolkien.[2]

In about T.A. 1100, the Valar sent several Maiar to Middle-earth to help contest the evil of Sauron. They had great skills of hand and mind but were cloaked in the guise of men, seemingly old but of great vigour.[5] Their mission was to guide elves and men by gaining trust and spreading knowledge, not by ruling them with fear and force. They were known as the Istari, or Wizards, and included Gandalf the Grey (Olórin or Mithrandir; later Gandalf the White), Saruman the White (Curumo or Curunír; he later called himself Saruman of Many Colours), Radagast the Brown (Aiwendil), and two Blue Wizards (Alatar and Pallando) who are mentioned in passing but do not appear in Tolkien's narratives.


And finally...

After the war, Gandalf crowned Aragorn as King Elessar, and helped him find a sapling of the White Tree of Gondor. He accompanied the Hobbits back to the borders of the Shire, before leaving to visit Tom Bombadil. Two years later, Gandalf — who by now had spent about 2,000 years in Middle-earth[21] — departed with Frodo, Bilbo, Galadriel, and Elrond across the sea to the Undying Lands. It was only then that his possession of Narya, one of the Three Elven Rings, became generally known.

Also in Gandalf's wiki, they explain how he went from Gandalf the Gray to Gandalf the White... that his body DIED, but a Maia cannot die, so he took a new form.... purer, with the kid gloves removed... Twisted Evil

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PostSubject: Re: Versus!   Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:14 am

Raistlin, without a doubt.

It was always an assumption of mine that Gandolf was an angelic type being (which is kind of confirmed by 'crunch's statement). Since Raistlin has been known to kill a god or two (or all, for that matter), and that the gods still fear him (after Raist changed his destiny and the gods remained alive), and that an angel would technically be at a lesser level to deities...

I would have to kind of disagree with Vader's assumption that Gandolf has compassion and a quick mind; that's what makes Raistlin so unique as a villain, his compassion! He does what he does because of his compassion; two prime examples would be Bupu the gully dwarf and the fact that Raistlin sacrificed all his power and the future because he had seen what would happen. And quick mind? One cannot gain the levels as he without one!

I believe that Gandolf, knowing what evils man is capable of, would not hesitate to strike at Raistlin... but Raist, being who he is, would feign being weak, would pretend to be falling, just to gauge the depths of Gandolf's power. And, as Gandolf relaxes to offer Raistlin the chance of surrender (good guys are silly like that, and as mentioned above, Gandolf followed the god of mercy), or as Gandolf moves in to deliver what he believes to be the final blow, Raistlin strikes with everything he has in one fell swoop.

Or, with Raistlin realizing the nature of the man before him, lashes out from the very beginning with magic and with taunts.

Either way, Gandolf loses.
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PostSubject: Re: Versus!   Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:40 pm

I really should think these things through beyond just picturing the battle in my mind. Because what a battle it would be! As Sooth mentioned, Gandalf studied under an "angel" of mercy... but the reason I chose Gandalf the WHITE was the concept of the kid gloves being severely dismembered. Gandalf had already died once, sacrificing himself to remove the Balrog from Middle-Earth, shattering a mountain! After returning as the White, he removes Saruman (evil wizard) and is instrumental in defeating Sauron, whom he used to fear.

Oh, just for trivia's sake... Tolkien's 'The Silmarillion', if taken as a rewrite of classic creation narrative, gives us the one God, Eru Illuvatar. Tired of being alone in the void, he created the Ainur, and through a great song, they created all things of substance in the void. After Eru created life, many of the Ainur chose to enter Ea (the creation) and watch over it, and they became the Valar. Since it was song, and thinking of it in terms of a choir, the lesser parts (less power), became the Maiar. So yes, angels. And though the Maiar were servants and followers of the Valar, they were also the first creations of Eru.

It can also be noted, as another example of Tolkien's making a creation narrative, that the strongest Ainur, named Melkor, who was also the first created, was also the first to be jealous of Eru's power. During the song, he sought to write his own music, and caused chaos and 'evil' to be born. Angry, Eru cast Melkor down into Ea, where he began corrupting the hearts and minds of Eru's children (Men and Elves)... twisting them into Orcs and Goblins. Any Maiar Melkor twisted to his will became the Balrogs...

SO... should have thought all that through. I spent some time on the wiki this morning reading up if I missed anything in Raistlin's history, remembering the details of him kicking Takhisis (spelling?) out of the constellations... stuff like that. One line caught my eye: copy/paste "eventually rises to become the most powerful mortal on Krynn."

Without even factoring in Gandalf's Ring (Narya, wiki it if you wish), this versus is a poor concept. Despite all Raistlin accomplished, he never achieved immortality, and Gandalf was created with it. I don't disagree that Raistlin could MAYBE/PROBABLY win a random fight, but after a time of healing, Gandalf would assume a new form, and return.

Okay, just from a single fight point of view, and ONLY using what we KNOW of Gandalf from the books and movies, Raistlin would win. Using the added info that Gandalf is an ancient immortal who helped create everything by singing, I give the win to Gandalf.... I mean, if he sings in reverse, couldn't he just unmake Raistlin?! Spooky! Kindly old gray wizard being all powerful... makes you think twice about yelling at an old guy driving too slow!
Neutral

And as an added tidbit of Tolkien lore, the Balrog that Gandalf destroyed was the last one, and... copy/paste: " When Gandalf died in the fight with the Balrog in The Fellowship of the Ring, it was beyond the power of the Valar to resurrect him; Ilúvatar himself intervened to send Gandalf back."

But looking through the wikis on both characters, I also find it odd that both had a soft spot for the wee folk...
scratch Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Versus!   Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:53 pm

Oh my... I figured I couldn't be the only one to picture that fight. Without giving all of the links, most forums give Raistlin the win, with many admitting they are only basing Gandalf on the movies. BUT, this particular site, with their "rumble style" and "reactions from the crowd" of characters, I figured you would both want to see:

http://www.kencyclopedia.com/kender/interaction/rumble/votepage.cfm?id=43

Yes, raistlin got the win, but I love the way they did this! And don't forgot the other fights going down the right side!!! Tasslehoff vs Hasslehoff, Bupu vs Yoda, Caramon vs He-Man... good stuff here! Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Versus!   Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:29 pm

Wizards and singing?!?!?! Wait! I know.....

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PostSubject: Re: Versus!   Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:55 pm

lol! That video is awesome every time I watch it!

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PostSubject: Re: Versus!   Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:55 pm

Are you freaking kidding me? I just wrote a lengthy post about Raistlin, Vader posted, so I clicked "modify" to post the post, and everything is gone?!

Gaah! I'll retype later from home.
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PostSubject: Re: Versus!   Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:29 pm

EVERYTHING is gone?! Obviously this is based on personal perception, as everything I sense around me is still here, mostly unchanged. The forum is still here, this table is still here... my bottle of pepsi? Yes. By clicking modify, you managed to erase everything from your point of view... I'm telling you, hackers from the future. Or the Submachine has you...

Razz Razz Razz

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