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Shadowcrunch
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PostSubject: Mecha Lecha High School   Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:27 pm

In light of recent online blowing up of opponent shit, I have become (once again) brain-googly over the Battletech universe of gaming. I remember back to my owning the original Battletech boxed set, with the little plastic minis, 2 maps, 2 rulebooks, and various errata, and I suddenly wish I still had it (or at least remember what the hell happened to it!). The remake from 2007 is out there, but it's damn pricey for the amount of times I would get to enjoy it... considering I never played it the first time cuz the rulebooks hurt my brain.

Enter the Wizkids "cliks" version of Mechwarrior, which I bought two starter sets for, and never did anything with. Pull them out, play with the minis, chuckle at the flexible measuring tape, dig through the cards...sigh... start reading the rule book... WTF?! These rules are in depth, yet extremely simple! The clicker bases take away almost all of the need for multiple mech stat sheets, and there's no writing! Could a mech tabletop wargame be THIS intense, yet simple? Soon, I will run a mission against myself, and I will see. Too bad Wizkids stopped making the damn thing...

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PostSubject: Re: Mecha Lecha High School   Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:17 am

Freaking sumonabeetch... just typed something real lengthy, hit 'send', and then a 404 error message came up, saying "this website is too busy".

Damn IE.

...

Between this and google losing the site within the past week, just what the heck is happening?

(copying this message in case I have to paste it)
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PostSubject: Re: Mecha Lecha High School   Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:35 pm

I had been enjoying picking on you, wondering why you had problems with google locating the site, when you should have the damn thing bookmarked already, but I also had this damn google blindness error occur the other day. It hit in Chrome, and when I tried in Firefox it said the server was unresponsive. I tried calling you to get time/date details, but of course you're way too important with the new work schedule to pick up your phone, so I checked in with Lord Vader.

While I was getting errors, he was happily flipping through these hallowed pages, no error. I fired up the laptop, and got right on the forum with no problems. Back on the desktop, errors aplenty. I don't believe my wife has had any issues with her Ubuntu laptop, using either Firefox or Chromium.

I have checked news in the admin panel, and checked the forumotion home site, assuming they are going through some server maintenance or updates. There was nothing listed. Since I don't have details from your end yet (what computer, where, when...) and all details I do have point towards only one computer in four having the problem, I can assume one of three scenarios...

1. There are issues with the computers involved. Being cross-browser, I would say something to do with system memory being full, or Window's browser cache size being full. (I also noticed these problems started AFTER I learned how to embed flash games from a Google site, but the game is still embedded, and the problem doesn't happen all the time... perhaps a problem with flash?)

2. Forumotion might be having minor hiccups, maintenances, or any number of server-side issues.

3. The thread about changing behaviors to upset future agencies was close enough to the mark to upset said future agencies. We are being hacked from the future, which would make sense with the problem being intermittent, as a signal from the future would have to cross a lot of time stream interference, occasionally losing connection. We have not been flagged as a time danger yet, so they have not felt the need to send an agent back and hack us in person, as they fear that since we know about them, sending an agent back would only jeopardize their secrecy. Be vigilant!

Oh, and post your thoughts on mechwarrior, dammit!

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PostSubject: Re: Mecha Lecha High School   Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:20 pm

Typing some of this from memory...

It's a shame that all the great games are gone, or have been so corrupted that they only resemble the original in name alone.

If anything, with you going through the cards and ruleset, this would make a grand opportunity to blow off the dust on one of those game making ideas from last year. I was taking table top miniatures and combining them with that WWII aerial combat game that involved elevation, in order to create a new style of mech gaming. Utilizing the M.A.R.S. Toyline of robot mechs (the small ones) with interchangeable parts, I was writing up customization rules for different legs, arms, torsos, generators, head / sensors, weapons, carrying capacity... all told, I believe I had figured out that 24,000 combinations existed.

Naturally, the Dollar Store pretty much stopped carrying these toys (along with Walgreen’s and Wal*Mart), so I was forced to look towards Legos for the answer. Build your mech according to designs (different cards would display different parts); and, instead of using a radio antennae, clear Lego bricks could be placed under the mech's feet to show elevation (melee combat can only work if both are on the same plane, ranged weapons might be limited, etc).



Just popped onto COT (typing this in Word so I don't lose it again); I swear I made mention of this game idea before, but I can't locate it. Was it just in emails? Oh well.

Anyway, I know I have the rules for this game some where, I'll have to make a new post. In the meantime, go through your rules and see what you can learn. Maybe by time we get done, we can start working on this mech game idea.

And for the record, Gnome Games still carries the Battletech stuff. Thought the figures looked cool, but never had enough extra cash on me at the time to buy anything. I suppose we could always use other figures / models as “counts as” and try a game. I'm sure one can find the cards or rules for specific mechs online somewhere.

EDIT - Here's a link to the M.A.R.S. stuff I mentioned earlier, in case anyone wanted a better idea.
http://monsterforge.blogspot.com/2009/09/attack-of-5-robots.html
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PostSubject: Re: Mecha Lecha High School   Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:50 pm

Last time I was at Gnome they had a whole section of wall for the wizkids mechwarriors. I was rather impressed, but I didn't know at the time that the wizzers quit making the damn thing. One nice thing about those starter sets I got (both identical) are that they contain everything for two players to start playing a quick match. It would be nice to see a website listing all of the mechs available, even though only some of them were available as a standard set (most were secret boosters, cuz it was a "collectible miniatures game").

And... maybe it's just cuz I've handled the minis extensively (yet never played the game...sigh), I personally think they are cheap crap. Weak-ass plastic, bad paint jobs (yes they can be repainted), bendy weapons... Even the clicker bases are lacking; this one spins almost freely and you can't feel/hear the click, this one you have to pick the mini up and twist like a mofo... Still, I suppose if they were GW or PP quality, the sets would have been twice the price. They look alright, just cheap.

Doesn't mean I don't wanna play! Very Happy

(On a side note, I only caught your post this evening cuz my Mechwarrior locked up as I was torso twisting to try lasing a Catapult sneaking up my bum.... took LRMs to the port side, HUD flashed, and FREEZE... Mad )

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PostSubject: Re: Mecha Lecha High School   Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:27 pm

Last night I started mentally and spacially preparing to run through a 'ME vs ME' to better understand the Clicker Mechwarrior rules. To make them more practice than theory, if you will. I'm thinking about doing a tutorial battle report as I go, using pictures and descriptions like the book does, but putting it in our own words, and skipping the BS. Don't know if I will do that or not, but for starters, I have an "unboxing" pic of the Mechwarrior: Age of Destruction starter box set! Note: The picture blows up nicely!!



In this picture, we can see:
1. our playmat map, folded in half.
2. 2 mechs, 2 tanks, and 6 support units
3. 3 dice
4. 2 cardboard water zone objects, and 2 cardboard 'blocking terrain' objects
5. Flexible ruler
6. 6 Mercenary contract cards (white/silvery)
7. 2 Planetary condition report cards (weather cards. blue)
8. 2 Pilot cards (green)
9. 2 "specials" cards, which are addons for mechs (red)
10. Booklet: "Quick-start and Rules of Warfare"
11. Fold out glossy card stock quick chart for most rule icons in the game
12. Some stupid piece of paper about different rules if you have boosters from other sets
13. Original mail-in card to win $250 in Wizkids merchandise! Yes, I already checked for the expiration Sad
EDIT! 14: I forgot to mention my black and red official one-size-fits-all Mechwarrior ring! This bad boy is made of a titanium allow, and have circuitry inside which allows it to be used as the ignition key for most mechs in the Inner Sphere! Or it's a cheap piece of plasticrap...

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PostSubject: Re: Mecha Lecha High School   Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:45 pm

Ahhh, Battle Reports! Those are fun, yet very time consuming. I know that I'd like to read one. But, the choice is yours....
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PostSubject: Re: Mecha Lecha High School   Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:02 am

Good god I hope this fits in one post.

So, using just the BASIC rules for now. Two players roll 3 six-sided dice (3d6 henceforth) and the higher is Player 1 (P1 henceforth). Unfold the map. P2 places one terrain piece more than 3" from any edge or deploy zone, then they take turns until all terrain is placed. Turn all heat and combat dials to the green start arrow (pics when I can get some good ones, just trust me, there's a green arrow), and place all units in your deploy zone. TADA!


Turns use orders. 2 orders per turn for the BASIC rules. The real rules give you an amount of orders per turn based on army point size. So here we have 2 orders.

In the pic below, we see the combat and heat dials of the blue mech. Look, green arrow. In the larger combat dial, from top to bottom we see:
1. Primary attack Damage, and next to that is an icon for sttack type (energy in this case), and the minimum/maximum range in inches for this type of attack.
2. Secondary attack Damage, the type icon, and the minimum/maximum in inches.
3. Movement Speed in inches
4. Attack Rating/ Defense Rating... next to that is an icon showing the unit type (this is a mech).
NOTE: Nevermind the heat dials for now.


These guys don't have heat dials, and only one attack type, so the dials show: Damage, Speed, Attack/Defense.



ROUND ONE
P1 moves the blue mech which has a speed of 8. Mech moves 8" and changes facing, which is free at the end of a move. It gets an order token to show it was issued an order this turn.


P1 moves the tank, which has a speed of 10. Tank moves 10" and changes facing a bit, then gets an order token to show it was issued an order. That was P1's two orders, so now P2's turn.


P2 moves infantry with a speed of 8. Moves 8" and changes facing slightly. Gets an order token.


P2 moves tank which has speed of 6. Moves 6" and changes facing. Gets an order token. P2 has used two orders. End of P2's turn and Round one.


ROUND TWO
P1 has moved Salamander and Undine armors up a number of inches equal to their speed number. They now get order tokens (chose a different color to rounds to demonstrate). IF P1 had issued an order to any units with order tokens already, that/those units would be "pushed" and that's not good... we will get to that soon. At the end of p1's turn, he removes order tokens from any units that have not been ordered this turn (mech and tank). P1 has issued two orders this turn and removed old order tokens, it is now P2's turn.


P2 moves up the mech and the Fenrir quad unit, and they get order tokens. Two orders means it's the end of the turn, so P2 removes old order tokens (red ones) and that's the end of Round Two.


I seriously need to get to bed, so I will continue this tomorrow. Hopefully we're getting a handle on movement with the BASIC rules. Basically, units can move a number of inches up to their Speed, NOT crossing enemy bases or blocking terrain. Tomorrow I will introduce running. I complete five and a half rounds to demonstrate combat effects, and those will be the next step tomorrow. After that I will introduce running, and start introducing some of the advanced rules. I hope so far this is easy enough to follow!

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PostSubject: Re: Mecha Lecha High School   Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:31 am

Good job!! I want to make one statement here for the record. Games of this type/category Should always include a 'Battle Report'. Within that, color photos. That would make learning new games so much easier.

Oh, but that would increase production costs and blah blah blah.. What they need to understand is the amount of people who purchase their stuff on a whim and toss it aside due to rule complications and then giving bad 'word of mouth' reviews.... If they had example battle reports, more people would understand easier and actually enjoy the game, causing others to purchase...

You have to spend a little to earn a little........
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PostSubject: Re: Mecha Lecha High School   Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:09 am

And I would like to reply, for the record, that you have made an observation of pure brilliance! I never really thought about it before, but I now agree 100%! I'm not really sure if what I did was the start of an actual battle report, but it's a hell of a lot easier for me to follow that than the book's "Let's look at example 1" where they have a paragraph with no pictures and a hypothetical situation that STILL somehow manages to just throw everything at you at once.

As I was going through these basic rules and applying them to the minis, it occurred to me the same thing happened in Warmachine. The book presents SOOO much that it becomes intimidating and hard to remember, but when you start putting it into practice a couple rules at a time, it becomes:
SPEED= inches of movement
Attack= ATK+2d6 vs opponent DEF, apply damage

In fact, it occurred to me the mechanics in Mechwarrior are pretty much identical to Warmachine! Instead of cards, there are now clicker bases, and the rules so far are:
SPEED= inches of movement
Attack= Attack+3d6 vs opponent DEF, apply damage

But I will add that the regular rules make for a much more in depth game, IF the units are present! There are units with move icons of propellers, which go on land but also don't slow in water. There are VTOLs that travel NOE (nape of the earth) or flight. There are transport units that can carry other units, so if one gets hit, you lose all the units inside. Quad mechs can crouch in NOE mode, adding to their defense. Jump jets and "Death From Above." Close combat vs ranged combat (the red mech in the starter set has only one ranged weapon, and the other is range 0). It's all very cool, but it all comes down to speed, attack, defense, damage!

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PostSubject: Re: Mecha Lecha High School   Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:33 pm

Oh, my point with the last post, Lord Vader, is that I have watched/listened to Podcast channels (stations) devoted to battle reports for players already "in the know." What if there was a group of people who specialized in "Training Battle Reports," done in full color, and distributed as PDFs? Printing cost is nothing, and it seems at least one in every group has a laptop or tablet or smartphone these days! $0.99 or $1.99, and have them in steps starting with the basics of movement and combat, then each round add something new, like we did on Vassal with Warmachine. So again, the overall point is, that was a brilliant thought!

Now...part two...

ROUND THREE
P1 Tank shoots at Red Fenrir. Tank has one weapon with a min/max range of 0/8, and the Fenrir is 4" away. *NOTE: it says right in the book anything can be measured by any player at any time in the game!* So, P1 tank has an attack value of 9. P1 rolls 3d6, and adds the result to the attack value. Roll=7. 9+7=16. The Fenrir has a Defense of 17, so the attack misses. P1 Tank takes an order token as it was given an attack order. *NOTE: Also notice, measurements are taken from the center of the base, not a front or back edge!*


P1 Mech shoots at Red Mech, and declares using the secondary weapon. Secondary weapon has a min/max range of 2/12, and the mech is 7" away. Also using the ruler to check Line Of Sight (LOS henceforth) and there is nothing in the way, as water does not count as blocking terrain. P1 mech has an attack rating of 9. P1 rolls 3d6 to get 12, and adds that to the attack rating of 9 to get 21. P2's red mech has a DEF of 20, so the attack HITS! The Damage rating of the secondary weapon on P1's blue mech is 4, so P2 clicks the red mech's base combat dial 4 times, altering the attack and speed values of the red mech to simulate damage! NEAT! Very Happy P1 has issued an attack order on the mech, so it gets an order token. That being two orders given this turn, P1 is done, so P1 removes order tokens from units not ordered this turn, and play moves to P2.


I apparently forgot to take a picture here, so bear with me, and try to follow this without a picture. Use the previous picture to get an idea of unit location. P2's red tank fires at P1's blue mech. The tank has one weapon with a min/max range of 0/12, with the mech being 8" away. The tank has an ATTACK of 9, and P2 rolls 3d6 to get 15, added to the ATTACK of 9 that gives P2 an attack of 24. P1's blue mech has a DEF of 20, so the attack HITS! The red tank's weapon DMG is 3, so P1 clicks the mech's combat dial base 3 times. The red tank gets an order token.

P2 decides though his mech still has an order token from last turn, the red mech will shoot at P1's blue mech, and declares secondary weapon (P2 mech primary weapon has a range of 0, so this was a good choice). BEFORE doing anything, an order was given to a MECH that already has an order token. The mech has been "PUSHED," and now gains 1 HEAT. P2 turns the smaller HEAT dial on his unit's base 1 click! I would hate to see what would happen with too many of those! Turning the heat dial did not affect any stats, so the shooting continues. P2's mech secondary wepon has a min/max range of 0/8, and the enemy mech is 7" away. P2 mech has attack 8, plus 3d6 of 5 (oh, that sucked) to get an attack value of 13. P1 mech has DEF of 20, so the attack MISSES. P2 mech keeps it's order token since it was issued an order this turn. That was two order, so P2 removes order tokens from any unit not ordered this turn, and...


ROUND FOUR
P1 moves Undine battle armor forward 5" (speed of 7) and changes facing slightly. Undine gets an order token. But this being a great attack vector, P1 decides the Undine will shoot at the red tank. Giving an order to a non-Mech unit that already has an order token is also considered a "PUSH," but non-Mech units do not suffer heat. The Undine's combat dial base gets turned one click, to simulate wear-n-tear. Uh-oh... that wear-n-tear has changed the numbers in the Undine's combat dial, dropping weapon damage and attack/defense by one each! OUCH!! So remember that: Giving an order to a mech that already has a token PUSHES the mech, and it gains 1 heat. Giving an order to a non-Mech that already has a token gives it 1 damage! Now, The Undine has one weapon, min/max range of 0/8, and the red tank is 4" away. The Undine now has an attack of 7, roll 3d6 to get 14, plus the attack of 7 to give the Undine 21. The red tank has a DEF of 20, so it's a HIT! The Undine's weapon damage is now 2, so the Red Tank's base gets clicked 2 times. P1 gave two orders, so his turn is done. P1 removes token from any units that did not move this turn, and...


And I apparently only did three and a half rounds. Still, should have been enough to get the general idea of the basic rules. Move, shoot, damage, and pushing. I also apparently forgot to take a picture of the Undine attacking, but I'm sure by now you get the idea of the attack rules. Next up, when I get there... running!

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PostSubject: Re: Mecha Lecha High School   Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:01 pm

cheers

Another Battle Report well done!
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