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Shadowcrunch
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PostSubject: BAD art.   Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:41 pm

NOTE: I plan to reorganize the art/creation section later tonight or this weekend, and this post will then be moved there, as bad art is NOT strictly from the realms of comic books.

I am by no means a great artist. Nor could I be described as a PRO, but there are certain things I pay attention to in my art. I may not get human anatomy just right, or even close to right at times... my proportions and perspectives are all askew, and it's overall hit or miss if I accomplish something artsy with any real value. BUT I do try to pay attention to having my work make sense in its context! If I draw something and it's seriously flawed, I try to fix it, and not just draw a rock in front of it! Twisted Evil And to think, even using that rock as an example, that there are PROS, who get payed damn good money to art as a career, and they release crap that... just crap. Eventually, this thread could be the start of something wonderful, like the sites about Liefeld! Laughing

So, I just saw something in a comic book that made this whole post make sense, because of the pure perversion involved with releasing these rough drafts to print. Let's see... illustrated by N. Steven Harris. Dynamite Entertainment's Voltron series, issue 7. I'm sharing 2 pages, and I have numbered the panels that I might explain the context so everyone knows what's going on... until the art uh-oh. This will be clickable thumbnails, as big as I can get them here, but you might need to blow them up to read the text. Here we go!



So far, most of this series takes place on Earth's future, and the details are vague, so don't ask. So we're on the moon, and Voltron is fighting some kind of samurai Voltron (no info yet there either).
Panel 1: Voltron has the Samurai Voltron pinned down with the Blazing Sword (YAY!)
Panel 2: Keith is... um... shouting?
Panel 3: Samurtron is shooting lasers at Voltron (whose green arm is off defusing bombs... just saying)
Panel 4: The lasers have blinded Voltron!!! (oh yeah, one cockpit when the lions are merged... just saying)
Panel 5: Princess Allura (yep, that guy in panel 5) is shouting.
Panel 6: Keith is agreeing with the Princess.
Panel 7: Voltron chases Samurtron across the moon!
Following so far? Good! Next page!



Panel 1: Voltron is on the chase, and prepping some barreled weapons in the red lions open mouth.
Panel 2: Here it is. WHAT THE HELL is going on this panel?! Someone tell me, and explain it!
Panel 3: Both 'trons are falling, presumably due to the ??? that happened in panel 2...
Panel 4: Voltron lands on its feet, while Samurtron falls on its back.
Panel 5: Princess Allura is... um... growling? Smiling?

Seriously though... second page, panel 2, taken IN context of the chase and the "about to fire" of panel 1... what's going on?! This artist is NOT horrible, and does a decent job EXCEPT action sequences AND womens' faces. Every woman he draws has more masculinity in the face than any guy he draws! On the first page, panel 6... it's like the old manga/anime camera shot across a boob or butt. Have the action in focus, but shove a boob or butt in the foreground for hotness factor... but this artist failed to remember that in such a scene, the boob shouldn't be squished flat by a seat belt! And really, if you pay attention to the black strip on her suit, combined with the layout and twist of the seat belt, that entire shoulder/chest area is doing something DAMN spooky!!!

I'm not saying I'm better than this artist, but good god... if I was getting paid to draw, I would NOT let this shite leave my desk... EVER!

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PostSubject: Re: BAD art.   Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:51 pm

Dammit... just noticed 2 more questionables from the same two pages.

Page 1. Panel 4. In this Voltron series, the characters wear suits the same color as their lions. Princess is wearing blue, Keith is wearing black... ETC. Soooo... if Pidge is out in the green lion defusing bombs, and he's wearing the green suit... WTF?! Maybe Hunk took the green lion? Could be, except the dude in panel 4 with the green helmet isn't wearing glasses! Maybe the lasers to the forward optics reflected the green light? Sure... except nothing else is turning colors. BAD COLORIST! taunt 2

Page 2. Panel 4. I can understand that the black lion is half red and half black, so the huge black blob on the bottom half of the torso makes sense. But what the hell is the big black blob on the waist-down metallic parts?! Shadow? From what?! It almost looks like it's supposed to be attached to Samurtron, but I can't find any indication of what it might be! Reminds me of Liefeld making venetian blind shadows on faces when there's no blinds in the room! "Holy hell! I drew this samurai robot falling down in a dynamic pose, and now I have to squeeze Voltron back there? Gonna be hard from the waist down... what would Liefeld do? I think people would notice if I used the ol' rock floating in the scene trick... Oh YEAH! Extra shadows! Now... if I just cover the entire bottom half of the scene in black... yeah. That about does it!" Face Slap

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PostSubject: Re: BAD art.   Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:21 pm

Oh my... I figured it would help explain the general direction I see for this thread if I shared what I have found about the aforementioned Rob Liefeld. In trying to find the site with 40+ examples of his crap, I accidentally found a blog apparently devoted to mostly bashing him. On that blog... I hope this doesn't hurt you too much... No


So, before continuing, here's the links to the 40+ examples and the blog, for your reading pleasure.
http://www.progressiveboink.com/2012/4/21/2960508/worst-rob-liefeld-drawings
http://fyeahliefeld.tumblr.com/

Also, I felt I should share a site (shared before but most relevant to this thread) that helps point out some of the problem areas artists have with the female form. The site started with just boobs, but has covered all kinds of serious anatomy issues in all art mediums. http://boobsdontworkthatway.tumblr.com/

That is the site which made me start paying closer attention to just what the hell is going on in fantasy/sci-fi art images. So, as some of you know, I once again have a homemade trading card game at a standstill at the art stage. I have also been playing rather silly virtual card games on my android devices (unlike the NON-silly card games on Kongregate). The other day I was looking at the gallery of the cards I collected in one game so far, and I noticed a serious art WTF in one of the images... like "holy crap! If I connect the hip outline behind the billowing cloth, her hip is coming out of her boob!" So I started paying even closer attention to art that is apparently acceptable enough for card printing (reminding me again of Mr. Liefeld). These virtual card games are doing simply wonderful things with using backgrounds, shading, and billowing things to cover up major anatomy apathy. I say apathy because it seems these artists just don't care! So that's one of the many reasons I wanted to start a place to share some of these art uh-ohs. Maybe if we can remind each other what kind of crap actually sells, we could spend less time on trying to be perfectionists and more time producing stuff!

To that end, as I find some of these crap card images, I plan to share those here as well, and open it up for discussion. As it stands, I'm thinking my card art can move along now, as long as I remember that billowing cloth and tree leaves can cover any part of my image I don't like! And rocks... gotta use rocks to block out feet.... maybe some pouches and chains... yeah...

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PostSubject: Re: BAD art.   Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:51 pm

@Shadowcrunch wrote:
BAD COLORIST! taunt 2

lol!


Anyways, panel 2 page 2 Pink leg foot kicks shut Red mouth?

Page 2. Panel 4. yeah... shadows. DYNAMIC shadowing!!! Uber Xcited


Last edited by VaderXanth on Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:54 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added P2/p4 part.)
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PostSubject: Re: BAD art.   Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:45 am

Here's some examples of what I mean. These are 'monster' 'cards' from the virtual CCG "Legend of the Cryptids.

The first is not a bad art, so much as a pointing and laughing. I told Sooth about this and he gave me a WTF look so I wanted to share. The point here is that this creature card has a rarity of COMMON.
http://legendofthecryptids.wikia.com/wiki/Cthulhu_the_Leader

Now, I will try embedding images and see if they get the deep link error.



I'm not sure what bugs me about this image. I think it's something with the way the left hip is angled, and it ALMOST seems like an that angle the right leg shouldn't be able to lay that way. I don't know, it just doesn't look right. Also, something I learned from the blog 'boobs don't work that way', and I probably wouldn't notice if I hadn't read about it... when an artists makes it appear as though each breast is a separate entity from the rest of the body, which is plainly visible here.


This one... the neck looks impossible small. Being a fan of manga, I know that's acceptable, but based on the shoulder width, it becomes less acceptable. Also, unless I'm mistaken, that's an unnaturally long way from breast to navel. Both of these pics, to me, are great examples of "If we make it look hot to our target demographic, maybe nobody will notice that we screwed up here, here, and here!"

Which is comic book artist mentality if ever I saw it. Again, I couldn't do better (with current skill set), but these people get PAID. I've never seen Royo or Soroyama release stuff that makes people question their knowledge of anatomy... just saying.

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