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PostSubject: Metal Detecting   Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:35 am

Hope I'm not jumping the gun here with this post, or taking anything away from anyone else who may have been wanting to post... but I figured that, in light of recent developments, that a thread was in order.  Perhaps, if things carry on, there could be a dedicated Metal Detecting forum within the hobbies area?


I was preparing to write up this big old spiel about metal detecting, but thought it sounded a bit... I don't know.  Anyway, I deleted everything and started over from scratch, deciding to post only relevant stuff.  Save the fluff for later, right?

I purchased a Garrett Ace 250 off of eBay, new.  Looking throughout different sites, this could run upwards towards $300, but I was able to get this for $200 with free shipping.  There were a couple other models I was looking at, being cheaper by $50 to $80, but the deciding factor was customer reviews, not to mention the waterproof coil (though in all honesty, I don't know how that differs from other units).  I was hard pressed to find any review below a three out of five star rating, with a vast majority being at the four or five mark (average seemed to be 4.Cool.  In fact, the only negative remark I found was from someone who wanted a metal detector that could detect objects while being held a foot or so above ground level.  My only complaint is that it's yellow, but oh well... so, all in all, a few extra bucks on something highly recommended or reviewed was worth it.

Although it would be fun and cool to do, I have no expectations of making money off of this.  I have serious doubts of finding enough booty for this device to pay for itself.  With that said, with no expectations, anything found is gained, right?







PERMITS

Wisconsin is a state that requires metal detecting permits.  From what I am seeing, permits are not required in Michigan.  I'll go more into the Wisconsin aspect of things in a bit, but as far as Michigan goes (and this is from their DNR website):

Quote :
Metal detecting is recognized as a legitimate recreation activity when it is conducted in ways that do not damage the natural and cultural resources in Michigan State Parks nor violate applicable state laws. Any items found must be reviewed by park staff and may be retained for further investigation.

Original link to review the above quote can be found here.

The one thing you have to make note of in Michigan is that state parks have designated metal detecting areas; that does kind of suck as it limits many practices.  I'm certain you might have to investigate further in a particular area to find other regulations, but at least the DNR isn't involved!

Okay, back to Wisconsin...

Wisconsin's website has a page detailing DNR permits, the guidelines and their restrictions.  That is found here.  In essence, and pulled straight from that page,

Quote :
Use of a metal detector on Department of Natural Resources property is authorized only if the property superintendent issues a permit.
The purposes are to prevent interference with the enjoyment of recreational facilities by the public, to reduce the potential for damage to the resources, and reduce the potential for loss of historical or archaeologically significant items.

Quote :
All excavations shall be returned to their original condition. All identifiable items (not cash or coins) and historical items must be turned in to the office before leaving the property or at the end of the permit period. If unclaimed, and return is requested, the items are returned to the finder after 60 days. The state retains title to all objects of archaeological interest. If the permit is issued to find a specific item lost by a park visitor, that item does not have to be turned in.

Sounds rather sucky, doesn't it?  Just keep in mind that the DNR only controls or regulates State Parks and waterways.  If you are in a county park, public or private property, the DNR does not hold jurisdiction.  This differs from game wardens, but then they are limited as to what can be enforced; a game warden cannot cite you for an infraction that does not involve hunting because that falls outside his jurisdiction.  In the same sense, a State Highway Patrol Officer cannot arrest someone on a county road or within city limits that falls outside a state highway (unless in pursuit), or a village cop arresting someone outside the village limits, because it is outside their jurisdiction.  With me?

So... in order to metal detect on State property, you need to follow the DNR rules.  What about the county level?

According to Marinette County Ordinace, 16.09(1)(m), The use of metal detectors is prohibited, except by written permit issued by the Department.  According to Shadowcrunch, permits can be obtained through the Department of Forestry in Marinette's courthouse facility.  There are two different types of permits, one for county parks, and another for county operated forest land.  Each permit is $5; you can get both for only $10.  If you enter a county park, keep in mind you will still have to buy a park pass for $3 a trip, or get a window sticker for $12.  Anyway, it's essentially $10 total to go wherever in Marinette County.

Then, as an example, there is the city level.  Marinette City requires a permit, although the link provided leads to nothing.  With telephone discussions, Shadowcrunch has stated that the city level people have heard of no such thing.  It is agreed upon that common sense and courtesy be at the forefront.



MAPS

This map shows forests that are "open to the public", ie, State owned lands controlled and regulated by the DNR.  Please note that when you first open that map you'll see a lot of owned property... zoom in, and you'll get a better picture.

This map shows things at the county level; county forests, county parks and the such.

Then there's this map, pretty much a plot book, but online.  It doesn't tell you who owns the property, but then again neither does a plot book.  It does, however, show county owned lands, roads, property outlines, and a great deal of other information.

From my experiences researching for my paranormal investigations, may towns or counties have the online plot map (land records).  If you see a parcel you need permission to be on, simply find that location on Google Maps and then search the address.  You'll turn up property listings, and in most cases, it'll give you a list of the last three owners.

None of the maps are really as hard or difficult as it may seem, it just involves a little research.  I'd recommend doing a bit of research on an area before heading out anyway.  Makes things more interesting from a historical sense, and gives you a better indication of the types of things you might find.  It also prevents you from breaking any laws because, after all, ignorance is not a defense.

{EDIT}

Looking for a topological map?  Might come in handy.  Not saying you can't find the same info on Google Maps or anything, but this does kind of complete things, helps in identifying possible locations, and gives you an idea of what to expect with hiking.  Try going to US Topo.

Then there's a more historic aspect of things.  A sister site to the one above, National Map: Historical Topo gives you, oddly enough, historical topological maps.  Can also be used for surveying an area that has changed due to development.

Where those two above are free, this one has an option to buy the maps... but why would you want to do that when a simple zoom and screen capture is just as effective?  Historical Map Works has maps from the late 1800s and early 1900s; not everything, but with some patience you should be able to find what you need.

{END EDIT}

CLUBS

Clubs can be a great source for additional information, and I even thought about contacting one from our area... but there isn't one, neither in Wisconsin or Michigan.  Below is a list of metal detecting clubs in Wisconsin.  Hey, Lord Admin Shadowcrunch... maybe if this takes off...



http://www.midstatemdc.com/  {Stevens Point}

http://www.threeseasonstreasurehunters.com/  {Chippewa Falls}


For Michigan

http://greatlakesmetaldetecting.com/

http://michgpaa.homestead.com/

http://mth.greatlakesmetaldetecting.com/   {Livonia MI, wherever that is}

http://www.swmss.org/  {Plainwell MI, southwest Michigan}
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PostSubject: Re: Metal Detecting   Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:08 pm

Marinette County Permits

I picked up my permits for Marinette County today, and I want to post the regulations here so that anyone who searches for information in the future can find it... of all the searches I did, and of the searches or discussions 'crunch had, nothing along these lines ever came up (as far as I know).  First of, metal detecting in Marinette County Forest areas.



The only thing I would have problems with is the removal of Indian artifacts.  First off, I don't know any experts in native American Indian culture who can identify an object as being a certifiable artifact; I certainly am not.  How am I to tell if what I dig up is Indian or not?  And with more and more Viking artifacts being discovered, does that mean I can take Viking items?  If we were prospecting on a known archaeological site, that'd be one thing, but from just going through the woods?  

Next we have the regulations for metal detecting in Marinette County Parks.



There's quite a bit wrong here, and some clarification is in order.  When it talks about a probe, I am assuming (by way of context) that a probe in this aspect is to mean anything used to penetrate the ground in order to feel for an object; I only make this distinction because you can buy a metal detecting probe to pinpoint hit locations (looks like a wand), but it acts like a small metal detector.  The biggest item I have an issue with is line 4: no shovels, trowels, plug cutters or knives allowed.  You cannot use any of those items while metal detecting in a park.  There is a work around though; from my studies in law enforcement, if a stature, ordinance, or regulation does not specifically state something, then it is grounds to do so.  Because the regulations state no shovel, fine, you cannot use a shovel... but it does not exclude rakes, gardening forks or pitch forks; however, this may be in violation of "no lifting sod" as seen in line 3.  A work around for that might be utilizing the C or U cut, but that is so iffy that it might be best to not.  Then again, sod is defined as the area of ground in which grass grows, so if grass isn't growing there...

Again, if the statute, ordinance, or regulations doesn't specify...

Someone might be saying that it isn't worth getting a park permit, but consider this: a lot of the parks are in a county forest area.  Even though you might be going to the forest, you have to go through the park.  Even though you haven't done anything, and there is no proof of having done something, it would be better to have you assets covered, just in case you run into an worker who wants to be bigger than what he is.

Okay, information about acquiring the permits.

1. You have to go to the Department of Forestry, address being 501 Pine Street, Peshtigo WI. They are open Monday through Friday, from {I forget} to 4:30p; they are open during lunch. The best way to get there is to drive into Peshtigo and turn right on the road just past the Citgo gas station. The department is just one block down, on your right.

2. As 'crunch discovered, there are two permits, one for forests, the other for parks. They cost $5 apiece. However, they actually aren't permits like you would normally expect, but rather printed off on an 8x11 sheet of paper. During you metal detecting, you are required to have the permit(s) on you at all times. I've scanned mine as a back-up should I lose them, and laminated the originals.

3. All the information you need to get one is your name and address. They didn't check my ID or anything, didn't even request a signature. Heck, all the permit has on it is date of issue, your name and address, expiration, and regulations. The only thing preventing someone from making illegal copies is the fact that it is all computerized; they can run your name and see if you actually have a permit. The whole experience takes a matter of minutes.

4. The permits expire December 31 of the current year. $5 to $10 for a year long permit? Not bad at all. As 'crunch noted, an annual park pass costs $12, versus having to pay $3 for every visit. Go to a county park six times in one year, you'll have paid off the permit and pass. Seven times, and you'd have almost paid off everything.

I think that pretty much covers Marinette's permits. If I've missed anything, rest assured 'crunch will let me know  Uber Xcited 
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PostSubject: Re: Metal Detecting   Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:40 pm

The probing is outlined in the first section of the digging technique PDF I emailed to you, sooth. The technique involves pinpointing with the metal detector, then inserting a rod or screwdriver down into the ground to try and stab the piece of whatever (hence the probing concept). Also, the technique further details once you have located said object with the probe on the top, you then slide another small tool, like a regular screwdriver, on an angle down under the object. You slide the tool up under the object and apply upwards pressure to lever the object up through the ground until it pops through. While seeming like a completely idiotic way to extract coins or artifacts or whatnots, this technique has actually become law in many public parks because of previous "treasure hunters" ripping up the turf and killing grass. From what I've read, it works well as long as your detector can pinpoint within an inch or two without difficulty.

One nice thing from your permits, this probing rule (and the shovels and knifes and such) are only on the park permit, not the forest. So, in the parks where they keep the grass mowed and kempt, a local treasure hunter will have to be careful. Hell, I'm game to try this probing technique, especially since it has been accepted by most regulatory organizations around the country. Granted, it will still be best to do the U or C thing in forests as well, so as to not cause these regulations to spread!

Side note: according to google spell checker 'kempt' is not a word, though 'unkempt' is. I would assume the opposite of unkempt would be a word, but I guess not. Now I'm thinking the official word I was looking for was 'kept' or the combo of 'kept up', but fuck 'em, I like kempt!

NOW, all probing aside, Sooth, I have a plan for the 16th. If you don't like this plan, it's open to discussion, so we can discuss, and then I can say nope I have a plan.  Razz I don't have time particulars yet as they will probably be by ear, but for my wants, I had a crazy idea today. Old rail road. We know the rough location of the station and post office, but not exactly what side of the road, or how far. We've pretty much agreed the old railroad probably ran down what is now the road, so the ditches would be considered the sides of the tracks. I still haven't found the exact specs on how far off a road is public property, but I'm 90% certain it includes ditches. My idea, since we will both have equipment, is we each take a ditch on either side of the road. Start around Bronnenburg road and head south, sweeping and working it, Village People style. If we go from Brownianberg to Country Lane, where there supposedly used to be a school, we will have a damn good portion of the sides of an old railroad, then on the way back, we could even switch sides, testing the detectors as we go. Also, based on the number of assholes who carve up ditches with their driving antics, I'm thinking nobody is gonna give a shit if we do a little digging. We can still be careful with sod, getting practice as we go. THEN, depending on what might be found, time constraints, or how tired we may be, we can hit County X park and look for coin and test the probing technique!

Oh, and speaking of detecting, my initial research says NO, a fish finder will NOT work as ground sonar to visually locate coins. Damn good theory though! AND... since I'm on days and am currently net-less at work, if you get time, try to use your resources to find out how far off a road is considered public, eh? I know the rule is often "up to the power lines," but most of the chunk of Old Rail I'm looking at doesn't have lines parallel to it. Maybe it's the distance off the road that the city/county government has to mow or till or clean or whatever? Don't know, see what you can glean, please. Email, post, text, or call me to discuss this crazy plan.

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PostSubject: Re: Metal Detecting   Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:05 pm

Damn. I just posted the above post, then scrolled up to reread sooth's and discovered his permit post was actually the second post in this thread. SO...SOOTH, there's 2 posts from me also! This one has questions directed at your first post, things I couldn't readily get out of Pete at the County offices.

You mention the DNR controlling state parks and waterways. On my handy map, they control almost the entire area of the Peshtigo harbor, which isn't a park, but I think because of historical significance or something it's their playground. What I want to know, because I've heard the DNR manages all flowing water in the state, is the rivers. My map shows no yellow (DNR) on any water areas except parks around large lakes. SO... let's say I want to walk the Peshtigo or Menominee riverbanks with my waterproof coil and look for lures anywhere from shore to a foot or so deep. Does that fall under DNR jurisdiction? When we say waterways, what do we mean? Also, what about wetlands? I've always heard about the DNR being full-bore jackasses about wetlands, but I see nothing on my map, nor anything anywhere, beyond wetlands that the DNR have placed signs all around. Where does the power of these bureaucratic bookworms stop?

Also, you mention Michigan. The city and county level still have not gotten back to me, and neither has the Michigan DNR, though you've covered most of that okay. BUT, you quoted DNR statute from state park regulations. I gathered nothing from city or county level web sites, hance the phone calls. I did read in forums that Michigan as a whole is a ton less strict, but have you found anything concrete about the city or county level? State parks are one thing, but maybe it's as simple to get into county land as it is in Marinette. Not a big deal for now, but if anyone else does pop on here for local information, it would be damn handy to have it available!

Oh, and you are 100% correct. We go in with no expectations, and it's all good. The 30 cents I got? That's 30 cents I wouldn't have without metal detecting! Will 30 cents do anything these days? NOPE! But my 30 cents also will not rot in the ground, or get snagged by somebody else just because they had the sense to swing a metal detector there! That 30 cents is MINE, when I had no expectations of anything. And keep in mind, metal detectors make awkward, but amazingly accurate stud finders, in case of home remodeling. And if you ever lose your keys in a drunken stupor, won't you feel wonderful whipping out the yellow garrett?! We go out the 16th, we find nothing but some rusty nails and MAYBE an old railroad spike, it's still a find!

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PostSubject: Re: Metal Detecting   Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:08 am

Regarding waterways, all water routes are public property (unless it is a specified private lake / pond).  Every stream, river, and lake is open to the public.  They are still regulated by the DNR, but they are open to the public.

Wait, let me rephrase that.  The water in any stream, river, or lake is open to the public... but not the shore or bed.  You can legally float along a moving body of water and cross onto or through a person's private property, but one you touch bottom or step out of that water, you are trespassing.

PSF Wisconsin navigable waterways

PDR Wisconsin Water Laws

According to Chapter 3 in the Wisconsin Water Laws PDF above, police enforce pollution  laws and "protect state waters from degradation".  We're not polluting or degrading anything, so locally we're fine.  

Also in this chapter, and echoed in state statute 281.11, it defines the DNR as the governing body "to protect, maintain and improve the quality and management of the waters of the state, ground and surface, public and private."  There is also, on the federal level, Department of Agriculture regulations (which don't apply to us), as well as tribal jurisdictions... but since we aren't on tribal lands, we're good.

So then, back to the DNR...

This map, if you can figure it out, when zoomed in far enough, shows recognized or acknowledged wetlands (outlined in yellow), along with potential wetland areas (outlined in pink).  There is a bit of a disclaimer posted on the map's information page located here:
Quote :
There is no attempt, in either the design or products of the Wetland Indicators Map or the Wisconsin Wetland Inventory, to define the limits of jurisdiction of any Federal, State, or local government or to establish the geographical scope of the regulatory programs of government agencies.
.

Everything I'm seeing simply says that a wetland is wetland, whether on state or private property. You just can't drain it or anything without first checking with local regulations. So... as long as we don't do lasting harm to, or destroy, any wetlands that are available to us, we're good. As long as we don't trespass on private property, we're good.

As for property ownership. Where the road or gravel along the side of the road ends, that is the property line. Some roads may have crews that cut trees or grass along the road, but this is done to prevent obstructed views; the property is still privately owned. There are a couple exceptions to this rule, the biggest being the strip of property that runs between a sidewalk and the road, usually covered with grass or trees. The sidewalk and that grassy section, a road verge, is owned by the town or city, but it is the responsibility of the owner of the adjacent property to take care of it (that's rather bullshit, ain't it? "This is mine, but you're ordered to take care of it or else").

One big thing that I did find relates to somethings I've read previously. "Detect at construction zones" they say. "Go to torn up roads and sidewalks" they say. Really?



Suppose it's a matter of not being caught or of not knowing the laws. Seriously, who'd have thought that this is a law? On a side note, I cannot find the penalty for violating that statute.
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PostSubject: Re: Metal Detecting   Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:01 am

My detector arrived via UPS yesterday, didn't assemble it until later in the evening.

My first reaction to seeing the size of the box was "wow, this is small", but reasoned that, seeing as how assembly was required, the box would have been more than enough to hold everything. Seeing images of adults on the box art reassured me that it wasn't one of those detectors geared towards kids.

My reaction to opening the box was "wow, this is small." I don't know if I held visions of the detector used by Tripwire from GI Joe or if I failed to grasp the scope or size ratio of the people using these devices. I may have forgotten that a lot of people are smaller than me, so I believed that the detector would have been a bit more bigger. I'm certain the construction is sturdy enough, I'm just surprised at how tiny it actually is.

That begs the question... what's up with the different sized or shaped coils? Do larger coils detect metals better or more accurately? I'll have to check on this.

{pause}

Okay, that was quick. Here's a page from Garrett that gives a pretty good explanation to the different sizes and shapes.

Serachcoil Tech Sheet

I'll be going through my backyard this afternoon when I get home, to see what I can see. I'm hoping that, being one of the older homes in the area, and being from one of the more "well to do" families, that there will be something to be found. Time will tell.
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PostSubject: Re: Metal Detecting   Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:20 pm

Going to skip backstory here and just say I was showing Vader the area maps from 1912. I was making a point of the ungodly amount of schools spread across the map, and he made the observation on the northern end of the Wisconsin/Michigan railroad (old rail road) that why would they have a post office and station in Wagner, then ANOTHER post office and station like 3 miles down the tracks in McAllister. I did not have an answer, but I developed a theory. After his visit, I continued looking at maps, and that theory expanded into a theory about the schools.

We know this area was huge in logging, and the Wisconsin/Michigan railroad was important in the iron mining in the UP. Lumber came down the river, and the railroad. Iron came down the railroad. It all ran through the McAllister area. My theory is that most of the land north and west of McAllister was actually where the logging was taking place, which is why there aren't tons of schools on the map out there. But Wagner, McAllister, those little podunks, between the railroad and the river.... THAT was probably where people set up little camps and homesteads. The population in 1912 was probably centered between the river and the railroad. Savvy? That, combined with the horses and such, meant they needed more post offices in a smaller area... maybe.

The schools? Historically, when we see rural schools from the time, it's the 'little red school house' scenario. One room, maybe 15 or 20 desks. Anywhere there was a 'camp' of people centered in one location, they probably built one of these little school houses. Close to the tracks and stations, near main thoroughfares (corner of Miles and Winesville... corner of Winesville and 180...which looks to be a distance of about 2 miles).

As theories go, it could be worse. I really wish we could get some aerial photographs of the area from 1912. Sooth? Anything at the Crivitz library?  Laughing 

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PostSubject: Re: Metal Detecting   Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:54 pm

Was playing with my detector this afternoon in my back yard, trying to get a feel for it, how to better adjust the grip and length, and to practice the technique (as well as adjustments to the settings).  Had quite a few hits, mostly foil... looking at where this was found, I'll assume that it was used to line a flower garden, much like how we use that black plastic stuff to line our gardens (not the weed netting on the bottom, but the stuff along the trim).  Also found what appeared to be a metal shingle, a metal band (rock on), and a bottle cap.  There was one thing that I found which I thought was interesting...

About an inch or two below ground level, I came across a tin toy cap gun.  Not a heavy metal (rock on) toy gun; I have one of those that I picked up from the We Store, but tin.  It has the flat hammer that you would normally see on the type that "fired" the paper roll type caps, a twin barrel, no cylinder indicating a revolver but rather grip markings similar to a semi automatic pistol, the word MAPLE can be seen on the left side of the gun (akin to a manufacturer's name), and no plastic end cap over the barrels.

I haven't been able to find anything online regarding this pistol, its description or make.  The metal itself is still strong enough to support its shape and well enough to be handled; the hammer is still able to be pulled back with minor resistance; the spring is still attached to the trigger, but is not attached to the internals.  There is a fair amount of surface corrosion, but not enough to take away from the detail.

Because I haven't been able to find anything online, I haven't been able to properly age this toy.  Because it doesn't have a plastic tip on the end, I'd have to say that it isn't any older than the 70s; I just read that the plastic tips weren't law until 1992, so the gun could be from the 80s.  So there you have it, in my most unprofessional opinion, this toy is probably about 30 to 40 years old.

I apologize for the quality of these pictures; not using my normal camera.  Can't find any SD cards for some damn reason.


Double barrel.  Unusual feature, isn't it?  You think that would make it easy to identify, but nooooo.  Note that the hammer is pulled back a bit.



Don't know if you can make it out or not, but this says MAPLE.  I've seen ones that say HAWK (among others) but haven't found any Maple toy guns.  Weird.



No fake cylinder, no sliding cylinder... this is a semi auto, not a revolver.  Note quarter to gage size of toy.
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PostSubject: Re: Metal Detecting   Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:20 pm

Despite the fact that the toy gun looks like crap (could be pics, could be corrosion), adding in the fact that you can't find anything about it makes it a damn neat find! Kudos to you! Can't wait to see this in person, but of course you will probably have a full history of the company and its toys by then.

You bring up an interesting point, falling into the "Shadowcrunch's historical theories" category again. Ground evolution. You say you found this an inch or two down. I've been trying to figure out how far down stuff would go over time. For example, if a penny was dropped in 1915 on a grassy yard, how far down would we find it today? I realize there's about a billion and one factors that would affect this, such as ground density, weather, traffic, blah, ETC.

Now, we take that 1915 penny and drop it in a one square foot area of said back yard. Couple good rains, it washes through the grass and into the top level of soil. 100+ years of dust, wind, rain... it does sink, but once it hits DIRT, it slows. I would be willing to bet, with no unnatural intervention, that coin COULD be less than an inch under the grass. NOW, same scenario, but this square foot of back yard has seen constant foot traffic over those 100+ years. Parties, lawn mowing, wheel-barrowing, what have you. How much farther down would this item go? 6 inches? 10? Damn interesting stuff (to me anyway)...

Again, good find!


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PostSubject: Re: Metal Detecting   Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:22 am

I've read that an object will naturally "fall" about one foot into the soil over a hundred year period. This would actually make sense in my estimation of the toy gun's age; three inches of soil depth would equal 24.9 years... placing this around 1988 or 1989.

(I readjusted my depth estimate after having looked at a ruler; note to self: include ruler with digging gear).

...

Just read a few different boards, and it seems the site that stated 12" equals 100 years is a rare site. Apparently there is no real good way to gauge the age of something by its depth, as newer coins can be found below older ones (as an example). Soil type, slope, amount of rainfall, frost levels / cycle, and so on, all play a part.

Regarding my pictures, I'll be taking better ones when I find a damn sd card. I think I know where I put them. I haven't completely unpacked all my gear since the Devils Lake trip yet.
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PostSubject: Re: Metal Detecting   Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:25 am

Metal Detecting Tips to Finding Stuff

Just some things I've been picking up from numerous searches and inquiries online.

1. Google Earth - 'crunch and I have been going over historical maps and comparing them with Google Maps to find locations that might be of interest. This is good, considering the maps we've been using are between 100 and 130 years old. For the most part, they're pretty accurate. Sure, there's some deviation here and there, but it is still an amazing thing the see alongside modern satellite images. Anyway, I just saw this neat trick that can be done with Google Earth... seems there is a time bar on this program that allows you to go to earlier images (the higher your altitude / less of zoom, the more images). Useful for seeing where buildings used to be, where roads were (or weren't). This feature doesn't cover all areas!

2. Mailboxes. In 1910, the General Postmaster issued a letter stating that putting pennies in mailboxes to pay for deliveries would no longer be accepted. Figuring that rural deliveries started back in the 1880s, there might be old coins lying about... the thing is, mailboxes back then aren't where they are now. Back then, mailboxes were placed where the driveway met the road.

3. Maps - In email exchanges I've posted a few different map locations, even included a fwe in the opening post. One I just found today is NETR Online. This contains property deeds, public records, historical aerial maps and historical topological maps. Of course, when I say "historical", what I mean is mid to late 20th century; think about it, how many aerial maps can there be before airplane or satellite technology? The topographical map selection is rather good.

...

In reviewing maps of the Crivitz area (heck, most of the Peshtigo River area), I couldn't help but notice the changes in the river's course, due to the dam being built or through natural means. In reviewing older maps, and in seeing the old course on Google Maps, I can't help but wonder what might be along those old banks.
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PostSubject: Re: Metal Detecting   Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:17 pm

PROPOSED SITE

I am posting this here as a proposed site, to get other's opinions on it, and to see if I missed anything or if this looks like a good find.  I'm interested in this site for a few different reasons (as the post will show), and I can't help but have my mind make unrealistic findings.  The post was typed up in Word so that I didn't forget anything, or have a chance of the site crashing or closing.  Images are posted throughout (maybe), with links provided at the end.

Ever since the Highway 141 Project was completed, or at least the section between Green Bay and Pound, I’ve noticed something a bit curious.  When you go south on H141, and then through the Lena area, you’ll see a historical one room school house on the right side of the highway.  Just past that, in the distance, you’ll see a very distinctive hill.  A rather large hill, as a matter of fact.

Look around that area, on both sides of the highway, in front and back, you’ll note a general lack of hills.  Sure, there are gentle sloping hills, but there is nothing that breaks the horizon.  The hills you do note are small, insignificant, and are probably nothing more than the works of farmer’s plows over the decades, and of a height that even a child would not attempt to roll down.  But that massive hill in the distance, what of that?  I cannot emphasis this enough: there is nothing even close to this as far as the eye can see.

I must not be the only person who is drawn to this hill.  There is something about it that draws the eye.  Perhaps it is because it’s the only massive geographical area in an otherwise flattened area, but a part of me sees that hill and wonders, wonders of the history of this area, and the Indian inhabitants.  I am only making an imaginative guess here, but I could see Indians proclaiming this as a sacred site, and from that picture, my mind does tend to wander a bit as to what could be found there.  But first, I had to learn of the hill’s name.

That in itself was a chore.  How can you find the history of something without knowing what it’s called?  Google Maps wasn’t proving much help either; they should really have a topography feature, you know?  Maybe Google Maps does, I’ll have to look at that later.  Anyway, try as I might, I just couldn’t find out what the hill was called, or for that matter where it was; it sure would be nice to see a driving route to it, you know?

Then, in the way only coincidence can work, I learned its name, and from that its history.

I was training a fellow co-worker as a backup should I ever be sick or take vacation, and we were discussing some common interests.  During one of those conversations, I mentioned how I’ve been wanting to explore “this hill that’s past an old school house in Lena”, and he was telling me about how he’d go climbing and exploring a hill by his grandma’s house, and it was a while before we realized we were talking about the same place: Mt LeBett, formerly Old Brown Hill.

This mount sits on the former shores (and now, I suppose, near) of Rost Lake.  I say former shore because of the maps I’ve pulled from the historic maps website: the shoreline used to be right there, but has since receded.  It could also very well be a cartography error, especially when considering that the development map of the area matches the housing property structure now.  Either way, from what the old maps show, this area was very popular, and it seems it was a rich vacation area, or at least it was very desirable to own property along this lake.



With this, we have a couple good reasons to investigate further.  Mt LeBett makes for a classic example of a sacred site, and we have a developmental history.  In the words of the deceased Billy Mayes, “but wait, there’s more.”

In 1964, a ski resort opened on the mount’s summit, owned and operated by LeLand and Betty Webster.  I haven’t been able to uncover anything regarding a Mt LeBett Ski Resort, other than a brief mention in Mrs Webster’s obituary.  In this, it tells how the Webster’s purchased Brown Hill in 1964, built the ski resort (which then changed the name of the hill to Mt LeBett), and then its final operations in 1985.  A quick Google Maps search reveals that there are still structures on top of this hill.



There you have it: sacred site, old vacation resort / development zone, and 60 year old buildings that haven’t seen use in two and a half decades.  How can this not be on one of our proposed metal detecting expeditions?

Well, there is the fact that it’s private property.  According to Oconto County’s parcel reports, it would seem that the hill is owned by {withholding the name, might be confidentiality issues}.  I’ll have to double check this information just to make sure.  I don’t doubt it is owned; the Webster’s owned it after all.  I just need to double check the property holders, as I may have clicked or highlighted the wrong area.  However, to add a twist to this, we do have permission from one of the hill’s adjacent property owners to use their property as an easement to access the hill.  Seems everyone living within this developed area has gone hiking, and the owners really don’t care.  With our activities being a bit more than sight-seeing, I would still like to contact the owners.

On a side note, the property owner who gave permission said that if we find any treasure, we have to split it with him.

So there you have it, a prospective metal detecting site!

...

Depending on what site you go to, the hill has a height anywhere from 971 to 985 feet, making it the 258th highest in the state.  That really doesn't seem to be that great of a title, does it?



Here's the historic map of the area... we'd be looking at plot 23 - Historic Map

If you wanted to do the overlay with Google, go here. The map we're interested in is 30N-Range 19E - maps

Regarding Mrs Webster, has info about the ski resort - Obituary

A small write-up from a book.  The link brings up the page, but the part about LeBett is on the second half of the page - book
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PostSubject: Re: Metal Detecting   Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:26 pm

From a magazine call Ski from Jan. 1975.


https://books.google.com/books?id=7-HCBlUw6EMC&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30&dq=former+rost+lake+ski+resort&source=bl&ots=QlpLGgQhgs&sig=IAZajlSriTKnQWQYxtGFj8pdOWw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=JfTkVPHYN4SfNqqkg8gD&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=former%20rost%20lake%20ski%20resort&f=false
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PostSubject: Re: Metal Detecting   Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:04 pm

They bulldozed four ravines?! Gaah!
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